Part 2: Universal Destinations & Experiences - A market research story behind Universal’s Epic theme park

Automatically transcribed

Aaron Hill: let's switch topics here. I wanna talk a little bit about Epic. You know, we, we mentioned earlier that you guys have a new theme park, coming on board, and I don't necessarily wanna talk yet about the theme park itself, but, but let's talk a little bit about the research that went into it. How long have you guys been doing research on Epic? What's, or can you talk about that?

Jennifer Avery: We've been doing research on Epic for like 10 years. I mean, I was just saying to Laura the other day, 'cause we have obviously a lot of events happening around Epic. there's like a research and know council across n NBC happening next week and they asked me to kind of give them the rundown of the research that we've done, over epic. Um, development cycle and I went to go put the presentation together and I had to pop open a deck that me and Laura built back in like 2016. so a long time. And what's amazing about that is that's true of a lot of the projects that we work on. 'cause, we are involved in kind of the high capital investment, demand work as well as research.

So it is weird to be having a conversation or looking at a thing where we started. Thinking about this topic a decade ago, it doesn't feel like it took that long. but we were brought in to Epic, you know, the moment that we wanted to make a case to Comcast to justify the strategic request, justify the investment, and then help. identify the core kind of creative direction that the part was gonna go into core IP choices, core attraction concentration. and that was a decade ago that that work began.

Aaron Hill: yeah. Talk about your lead times on projects. So was this something that was like driven by research? I mean, had you guys done research that said, Hey, I mean, 'cause I know kinda the problem is that you've got Disney next door and they've got tons of theme parks and, and their model is locking people into Disney, you know, key creating a captive audience there. And, you know, universal beginning was kind of a struggle to get people to move over from Disney and, and so new theme Park helps with that. Was it something where you had done research that said, Hey, this is the problem, or was it that other factors had come in?

Laura Dulude: it to some extent, yes, to some extent, no. I mean, I think it, it was sort of a no brainer looking at Disney's trajectory, having built, you know, four theme parks in Florida and our trajectory having already built two, that the next step is probably to build a third. but there was, I mean, Jennifer can speak more to this, but we of course do brand tracking and you know, there was a narrative or conversations at the time around perceptions of scope. How much is there to do at this destination and is it worth, you know, a certain number of days. 'cause to your point, Aaron, that that is Disney's strategy is, is get people on property, have them stay on property, have them not leave, right.

Be there for a full week. And so in our case, it was sort of trying to figure out how do we increase the number of days that we can take from that and get people to stay at our parks. So there was a lot of conversation around brand tracking, but I think even without that research, it probably would've been a conversation about, building a third park.

Jennifer Avery: Yeah, I mean we report to a chief strategy officer who. Um, has been talking about kind of our destination strategy, for years and not just, him. I mean, this is something that the organization strives to. Right. we always knew based on the data and frankly common sense, like what we're saying, that there's a limit to, to what kind of share of time and wallet we're gonna get with our volume of content.

And of course, you know, that, that very fundamentally determines like what segments are available to you. So, you know, plenty of work was done leading up to that. You know, we knew in order to continue to provide the growth that our parent company desires from us, that this was, this investment was a necessary step.

Aaron Hill: So how do you, how do you structure it so they come in and say, Hey, we're thinking about, going this direction. how do you tackle research on something like that?

Jennifer Avery: I mean, I wanna be honest about like, research isn't in, in part of every little part of the process. You know, we had to do work to justify, The investment, you know, so we had to do work that would demonstrate with some reasonable empirical evidence that we could acquire that, you know, extra day or two or whatever.

so that sort of demand type of work needs to be done. opening a gate like this is not something that's happened in Florida for like 25 years or so. Right. so this is a. Pivotal moment for the industry and, you know, there's no dearth of creativity in our creative function, so it wasn't just a no brainer that we're just gonna open a park with multiple lands, you know, because that's what we're doing, right?

We're opening a park that in a, in a certain way, kind of looks very similar to say, islands of adventure, right? It's multiple lands that are deeply IP based. pulled together with sort of a loose thematic, it sort of seems like we're following the formula, but at that inflection point when we were opening a new gate, creative thought about a number of different kinds of concepts that it might choose instead, should we focus on a singular ip or should this be a part that's fully dedicated to say, you know, AR or VR type, Technologies or, you know, it should be a, a part that appeals to a certain segment. So there were, quite a bit of ideation about directions that we could go. That might have been, a more significant pivot in the industry. But of course, we did a bunch of research and what we learned was that people wanted more of what we had, which was just deeply immersive lands built on. Beloved ips, with thrilling attractions at the cornerstone, of those lands. but that wasn't just assumed, it was tested and alternatives were considered. and then of course, which IPS becomes, a pretty important question. Universal. NBC Comcast, we own a number of really great ips that we can take advantage of.

We also partner, um, with other, companies to, license. things that might compliment the set. So we had to look at, a wide assortment. I mean, this is a little bit different than what Disney does, right? Because, Disney only uses what it owns, and we don't, where we have great partnerships, like with Nintendo for example.

We don't own Nintendo. Um, but we did the work to determine what the right mix of intellectual properties would be, where those fit with our overall brand umbrella, what would draw, the greatest reach. Youacross our key segments. So, I mean, probably predictable, but all that work had to get done.

And that, and that's where we were primarily involved. I mean, after that, I'm not gonna lie, universal Creative does not need researchers to micromanage, you know, it's decision. they're fully capable, you know, they're research experts or theme park experts in their own Right, right. I mean, they, they have a different kind of knowledge, but it's a, a deeply valuable one. so when it comes to the stuff that you're gonna see in the park, you know, the specific rides and attractions, the specific executions, that's not dictated by us nerds. You know, it really isn't. I mean, of course it's informed by all of the research we do. We know what rides do well. We know what drives good guest satisfaction scores.

All of that is. You know, sort of in and threaded throughout, but you know, the stuff that you know, your listeners, you know, the 12 went here, this podcast we're gonna, are gonna, see, you know, those things are the genuine, creative, output of our creative partners, you know, and not dictated by research.

Aaron Hill: Yeah. So as you've gone, I mean, you've been doing research this whole time though, so what are the other topics, you know, as, as you've gotten more granular.

Jennifer Avery: I mean, to be candid about it, I mean, we haven't done a ton of research in the midterm because, you know why they've been building a park. That's hard. I mean, and once all of the development is done, then it becomes a matter of like executing the budget, you know? So occasionally we're brought into conversations if, we're over budget and we might need to scale back, you know, where are the appropriate, places to cut where we won't really. hurt our attendance driving capacity, or, our segment. So we're brought in as, things have to be, somewhat modified, but when you build, you spend billions of dollars building a park on what is actually a really short timeline. You know, at some point you stop researching and you're just building to execute so you can open, you know, since that time we've actually been working on all sorts of things. Some of which have been announced such as, our kids park in Frisco, our, horror unleashed experience in Las Vegas that I'll be opening later this year. and we've been doing work on, the newly announced UK projects. So, you know, we haven't been focused on Epic for the last 10 years because we are working on the things that we will be opening 10 years from now.

Aaron Hill: Yep. So we are out of time. So last question is, I guess I wanna give you an opportunity to talk about Epic.

Jennifer Avery: Yeah.

No, it's, it's super exciting time.

It's been amazing to go over there, you know, and Laura was just here a couple weeks ago and we all went during team member preview and it's a gorgeous park. What Universal Creative has done in that park is a really really something, You know, it's hard to open a theme park, so remember that, we're opening so many incredibly sophisticated rides all at once, so I'm sure there'll be some bumps here or there. But, it is an absolutely phenomenal park with phenomenal attractions and just the highest, deepest level of immersion in the industry. so, you know, we had a very small part in it for sure, but, we're certainly proud of the work that we've done on it, and we're just deeply proud of the organization for having. Having brought such an amazing thing to life,

Laura Dulude: It,

Aaron Hill: excited to go.

Laura Dulude: It's gorgeous. And like Jennifer said, just the level of immersion is, really beyond other theme parks that I've experienced. yeah, everybody go to Epic universe

Laura Dulude: but yeah, it really is a wonderful experience.

Aaron Hill: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate your time and sharing your stories with us. and wish you success on your continued research on, even new adventures 10 years down the

Jennifer Avery: Thank you for having

Laura Dulude: Thank you. Thank you having us.